Thoughts on God and Science

I often find myself having conversations about God or the lack thereof with several of my friends. I am a devout believer in God, they are...otherwise inclined. A couple of things come to mind, not necessarily directed at these friends but just in my musings surrounding this "conundrum".

First: Why does the target keep changing? I feel like any time I have a conversation with someone who is convinced that God doesn't exist they have their favorite question to stump people of faith. If I give an answer that is well thought out and coherently argued, immediately they throw out a new question, or change the parameters of the one they asked before. A recent case in point:

The argument: God(of the Christian persuasion) can't exist because a woman cannot have a baby without having a sperm fertilize an egg. It just cannot happen.

My answer: Who said there was no sperm? Just no intercourse. Ever heard of artificial insemination? In vitro fertilization? I have several friends and family members who have conceived children by means other than sexual intercourse.

And here is the change of target: For Mary, I'm just going off what the Bible says. "A virgin shall conceive." Virgins don't have babies, especially 2000 years ago.

So you didn't want an answer to your question, there was no room for a different possibility in your mind, you wanted me to roll over and let you score the point?  You can't admit there is a possibility of a reasonable answer, instead you move the target.

Second: Why do you ask a question which can't be answered (meaning you don't want one)? Here is how I boiled down a friend's recent argument about the impossibility of God's existence because we can't explain how miracles happened:

Point the first, if we can't explain a miracle then it couldn't have happened and it is a lie, therefor there is no God.
Point the second, unless and until you can prove to me that these miracles are possible scientifically, they couldn't have happened.
Point the third, if we can explain a miracle then it is instead science and not a miracle therefor we have no need of God, so he can't exist.

So you really didn't want an answer to your question, you want a person of faith to use for a pinata at your party to beat until the candy of their shattered faith pours out for you. Sorry find another pinata.

I think where I really hang up with people on this is here, to me the argument isn't binary. To me the question isn't "God or Science", and if that is the question my answer is YES. (Thanks dad for undermining my ability to make normal sounding arguments from an early age.) That doesn't make any sense you say. Actually it makes perfect sense, at least to me. Let's approach it from a different angle:

We can agree there are laws or rules that govern everything right? I don't mean civil laws, but natural laws. For example we can agree that gravity exists, we call it a theory because we can't exactly explain all the little nuances yet, but there is a law there however imperfectly we can explain it so far. Exactly like that there is a law for each other natural reaction whether we understand it or not. These laws are overarching. Lets call these laws science.

Let me ask you a few questions about this "science".

-Are these laws everywhere?

-Do these laws govern everything?

-Are these laws what cause life as we know it to exist?

The next question whose answer isn't provable, but to me is the logical progression from realizing that these laws exist:

-Could this complex system of laws which governs all of existence have suddenly just sprung into place via accident? Could the universe just have not existed one moment and existed the next?

Not impossible, just statistically very improbable.

To me that points to something which was there to put the system as we know it in place, a "creator" if you will. This creator (I call it God) is able to perform what we call miracles, because it knows every facet of the system perfectly. The answer in my mind is yes God AND science. God is the perfect scientist.

The end game to this whole thing: Can I prove God exists? No. Can you prove he doesn't? No. Can we have a logical discussion and exchange ideas without resorting to name calling? Yes, please. We might actually learn something in the process. Can we agree to disagree whilst being civil and working together for the common good of humanity? I sure hope so.

Back up a Step

I came back from leave today, and checked FB for the first time in a couple of weeks and I can't say I missed much. My news feed had a few items of interest on it: pictures of friends and family, news from the same, and a few requests for a helping hand. Unfortunately most of this was buried in a heap of ignorance, hatred, filth, knee-jerk screaming, and just plain stupidity so thick I quit looking.

A quick disclaimer: I am a soldier, a gun owner, a Mormon, an Eagle Scout, very fiscally conservative, opposed to government involvement in my marriage and my bedroom, against government run universal health care, a huge sports fan (Utes, Jazz, Broncos, Rockies, Avalanche, RSL, Team USA), a husband/father/son, an avid volunteer, voracious reader, and table top miniature war gamer. However, not one of these things defines who I am in my heart, or how I feel about you as an individual.

Unfortunately, because it is so easy to share information in this day and age we often don't put much thought into what we share or bother to check the "facts" behind what is presented to us. I am convinced that if I as an individual were to sit down with almost any person in the world (and an appropriate translator in many cases) one on one we could come to an agreement and live in harmony.  That is not to say I am some kind of paragon of virtue. That is to say people, individually, are generally reasonable, affable, and kind. It is when we get into groups and try to start defining one another with labels that the wheels come off.

Back off the hate people. Intolerance and stereotyping are running rampant on both sides of several issues. I am sick of it. I will be limiting contact with those who are especially potent in their vitriol. If you have nothing intelligent or useful to add to the conversation, I don't want to listen to your pointless shouting. Please have your opinions, please share them respectfully. Please do not assume because I disagree/agree, I hate/love you.

So that it isn't missed in all of my rambling, here is my central point today: intolerance, racism, bigotry in all its forms are BAD THINGS. Please don't think that because you are on one side or the other of an issue that your side is free of them and the other side is rife with them. Take a step back and look at what they are saying, "walk a mile in their shoes". Your opinion may not change, but your approach to another person may.

Also remember, free speech isn't without price. Someone pays for it. Many people wearing any of several different uniforms have given their lives so you can say rude, ignorant, hateful things to one another on topics where most people's opinions aren't going to change. The Bible taught me, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:3

This country could use a lot more cooperation, selflessness, and compassion.